we constantly find ourselves arguing kobe's legacy mainly because some folks can't get over the fact that he comes off self-centered (for lack of a better words).... judging his play on the court this article puts his current place in NBA history in relative perspective. folks constantly compare him to jordan and lebron recently. even before the playoffs i didn't understand folks thinking lebron was better than he but after the postseason hopefully this argument is over until they touch gloves next season and some seasons to come actually.
overall there are plenty of good players between jordan and lebron so this article suggests where kobe belongs as a laker which to me can be easily extrapolated to where he belongs in nba history... top 50 alltime, top 5 guard, top 2 shooting guard, top 10 player period.... read and determine where you feel he stands.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/columns/story?columnist=broussard_chris&page=kobe-100618
Friday, June 18, 2010
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I think ESPN needs to give Chris Broussard a urine test b/c he's talking/writing like he's on crack!
ReplyDeleteTell this to Otis and Mosley. LOL
ReplyDeleteOn top of the quality-of-teammates argument, Kobe beats Magic decisively on defense. Kobe has been a great defender, earning first-team All-Defensive honors eight times and second-team twice. Magic was never an all-league defender.
Here's the question I always ask myself when I think if one player is better than another player... He's talking about the Lakers here although he does throw one Jordan reference in there... Here's the point.. If you’re saying any player is better than any other player.. Here's the question I always ask myself... Would I draft Kobe over Magic. Would I draft Kobe over Shaq. Would I draft Kobe over Ferdinand Lewis Alcidner jr. AKA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar... I would NOT draft Kobe over Magic, nor Shaq, nor Kareem... Just to name three... The defenses that Magic and Kareem played against were tougher, and Shaq also... Kobe benefits from the fact that defense can't be played like it used to be... All these guys(Chris B and who ever else) are prisoners of the moment... Kobe was a role player for the first 3 laker championships... He could have been replaced... Dwayne Wade was the best player in 2006, and if it wasn't for injuries. His play would have made Kobe an afterthought.. Kobe has had two good years 2009 & 2010 and now ppl are comparing him to M. Jordan and calling him the best Laker ever... They're all prisoners of the moment!!! Phoenix put them out of the playoffs in 2007. Phoenix came back from a 3-1 laker series lead...
ReplyDeleteI could barely get through the video must less the article
ReplyDeleteI would have added bit$h to end of this paragraph. "But that's the only thing I'm giving Kobe over Jordan. He's not Jordan's equal, and I don't think he ever can be, let alone overtake him as the G.O.A.T. Michael averaged 33.6 points, 6 rebounds and 6 assists on 48 percent shooting while never losing a Finals series. He dominated every Finals he played in ways Kobe has not come close to doing."
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ReplyDeleteTo powerful: "The great thing about the Lakers is that we judge by championships," said Magic
ReplyDeleteRaja Bell D-up Kobe in the 2007 playoffs.. Who is Raja Bell? exactly!
ReplyDeleteno one is saying kobe is better than mike... case close.... mike dominated with less talent end of discussion....
ReplyDeletebut i think the point brought home is we whole magic, kareem, bird etc in high regard.... for instance one says kobe was a role player on the first 3 titles... well i can say magic was a role player with kareem the best big ever arguably. i can say bird had help... kobe has never played with multiple hall of famers (he played with one in shaq and none now but has won two titles).... thus you can say he won with less talent than magic and bird did so he's better right... maybe... the point being he is in the conversation.
you can't ignore the numbers.... people use numbers to say jordan is better than kobe but won't do the same to say kobe is better than others....
this whole thing about the rules is ridiculous... you can no longer hand check but you also have rules that benefit defense...
you have the zone which the suns proved can be effective. you have 8 secs to get the ball across half court... you can no longer hook defenders (how many times the jordan go baseline hooking... about 10x a game). you can no longer slap defenders hands away which jordan also popularized. the two aforemoentioned rule changes came about because of no hand checking.... basically they cancel each other out. also there's the dotted circle which helps defense get plenty of unwarranted charges... they never called charge in the 80s and 90s... now they call it 5x a game.... also there is the foul on moving picks... this was never called in the 80s and 90s.... even traveling and palming calls have gone up..... i would say that playing offense is actually harder today (outside of hard fouls)..... give credit where credit is due.
broussard makes a good point stating that there are folks that are prisoners of the moment but there are also more folks that are prisoners of there childhood...
these same people think music sucks now; it was only good when they were in high school/college... notice how everyone thinks music was at its best when they were in their 20s. its the same way with sports....
why would athletes only get better, stronger, faster in every sport except basketball?
A lot of haters... Mosley!
ReplyDeleteLook Kobe is better than Magic and is the best Laker of all time. Mosley makes a decent point about where would you draft Kobe vs Magic, Shaq and Kareem. But people put a premium on big men, look at Hakeem Olajuwon and Sam Bowie drafted over Jordan. I would not draft them over Kobe, Shaq had Kobe and D Wade, Magic had multiple Top 50 players and Kobe had Pau Gasol for his last 2 rings.
Y'all are trippin.
Prisoners of the moment comment is Kobe's performance in the last two years... If any one says Majic was a role payer or Bird for that matter, then they really don't understand basketball... To me, Magic is top two players ever.... case closed.... Here's my opinion on bigger faster stronger(other sports excluding basketball) any body who played in the mid to late 80 until 2010 are pretty much equal... Jerry Rice played in the 80s and from 1985-2005... he was elected to pro bowl in 2002.. Brett farve has played since 1991 until present... So, I could go on and on Emmitt Smith(1990-2005), Barry Sanders, Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin(1988-1999), Reggie white... Bigger faster stronger should show up more in Football than any other sport... So, to say any body player in the 2000s is better than anyone who played from the mid 80s and/or 90s just b/c of the time they're playing in is a loosing argument.... & we know the baseball argument... a lot of those baseball player were on steriods... Now a days they have players who take suppliments that help them recover faster which I think is borderline steriods.... Now if you want to make the argument that a more diverse player make up is now allowed b/c black were descriminated against and not allowed to perticipate, then that argument is valid... that started changing in the 80s... Now let's take it to basketball, I think Jordan could have played in the 2000s, I think Majic could havd played in the 2000s... I think the entire starting Bad boys Pistons team, the entire starting showtimes lakers, and the entire starting Larry Bird Boston celtics could have played in the 2000s... So, bigger faster stronger is not working...
ReplyDeleteHere's the argment... Kobe was a role player in the first 3 championships he has a ring for... He was the main force in the two he won... Magic was key in all five the he won. Magic won a championship and the NVAm finals most valuable player award in his rookie season.. Kareem sprained sprained his ankle in game 5 and could NOT play in Game 6... Magic palyed center in game 6... He had 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals... Do you seriously think if Shaq went down in any of the first 3 championships Kobe as a role player got a ring for... the lakers would have won?? Kobe has had two good seasons... He was Ded-up by Raja Bell with a 3-1 lead against the Phoenix Suns and lost!!! Defenses are not better than they used to me... Offenses scoring is easier.. When Defenses were tougher... Any player would think twice about driving to the basket b/c he might get his heas cracked open with a hard foul or even get hurt worse... and it would have been just that a hard foul!
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ReplyDeleteOkay to quote you: "notice how everyone thinks music was at its best when they were in their 20s. its the same way with sports....
ReplyDelete"..... Personally I think Luther Vandross was the best singer ever.... So if you're saying best means I don't enjoy sports, then... I still enjoy sport just the same.. Really enjoy watching footabll.. College, Pro, and Arean.. What I'm saying is aspects of the game are EASIER now... I'm pretty sure the NBA will tell a lot of rules were impletmented to increase OFFENSIVE production and the NFL would tell you the SAME thing.. I'm not the only person who knows this... It's a fact? The powers that be think fans want to see more offensive production...
You said that Kobe did it with less talent on the team(your argument).. He also had less competition and an eisier road.. So, while your saying bird and Magic played with HOFers(your argument)... They also had to play against those HOFers...
i don't think magic or bird or any of the hall of famers from those previous teams were role players just like i don't think kobe was a role player. but if you say kobe was a role player for the first 3 you are hating because you are not using the same grading scale when you speak about the 80s lakers and celts. was worthy a role player, how about pippen; kobe's contribution was greater than theirs. derek fish, kerr, scott, ac green, danny ainge, john salley, horace grant, vernon maxwell, horry, are role players... kobe, shaq, worthy, parrish, dumars, den johnson, mchale, magic, bird, jordan, pippen, wade, duncan, gino, parker are not role players
ReplyDeletein 2000-1 both shaq and kobe avg'd 28 pts, in 2002-4 shaq would avg 28 and kobe 26.... i think that's more of a duo than one being a role player.... stop hating.
people naturally think of there youth as the best years of their lives... by the time you are in your 30s most feel they have seen/heard it all.... extraploate that notion to your 40s and 50s.... its natural.... very little things excite you as you get older. that's just fact. i think that clouding folks judgment.
people fail to realize the fact rules are changed in any sport is because players get faster and stronger and bigger... 3sec in lane, no dunking, a wider lane was because of folks like wilt... the same can be said about the game today and changes regarding hands checking and hard fouls. if you allowed the physical play of the 80s and 90s these better players would get hurt (the same in football with chop blocking rules, fines for hits, protecting the qb, tackling on the ground, etc.. the nba realized that if you allowed the physical play of the pistons and knicks an inferior team (such as those two squads) could beat a better team simply by hitting them in mouth... if you allowed the athletes of today to hand check scoring and the game would be so ugly... who could score on athletes like amare, lebron, dwight, melo, KOBE, rondo etc if you allowed them to play knicks d. in the 80s they decide see the athletes on a day-to-day basis as you get now... as you pointed out the mere make-up of the league proves this. obviuosly the greats overlap and are more timeless. but what about the other members of the squad.... a player like chris birdman andersen is more athletic than kurt rambis.... that's just how it is... i agree supplements, steroids, food, yoga, weightlifting whatever all has impact on this.... THAT IS THE VERY POINT... BIGGER FASTER STRONGER, DOESN'T MATTER WHY.
actually by 2003-2004 kobe was outscoring shaq...
ReplyDeleteYou all are trippin and grasping for anything trying not to give Kobe his props. I am admittedly handicapped by my age because my only memories of Magic are from the Jordan winning his first ring and then the HIV fallout. I was not ready to say Kobe is better than Magic.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that when a credible source states Magic didn't play great defense and no one disputed that, it sealed the deal that Kobe is better than Magic. No one can say Kobe isn't one of he greatest offensive players ever and he is also a really good defender, hands down, some would say he's a great defender. That right there sealed it for me.
To the prisoner of the moment argument, that makes no sense. Kobe has been the best player in the league for the past 5+ years. Ricky who hates Kobe admitted this. Dwayne Wades great one year that Mosley keeps bringing up wasn't that great, check his stats. He did blow up in the Finals, but that's it. A flash in the pan doesn't count in this conversation. And the fact that he got hurt is not a reason to say Kobe hasn't been the best for years. And no one has come up with a legitimate alternative to Kobe being the best player in the league for the past 5 years, and he's probably been the best longer than that.
i personally like magic and kareem over kobe... i think its a tie between he and shaq but i don't think you are on crack if you think kobe is the best laker.... i am just saying its a legitimate conversation unlike jordan vs kobe, ewing vs dream (this hurts my heart); some things are just fact.
ReplyDeletei do believe there was a good point made asking in hindsight of careers where would you draft person a over person b.