In yesterday's good but long Bill Simmons' column, a conversation was brought up "why don't more NBA teams press"
Lainks:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090513/part1
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090513/part2
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090513/part3
GLADWELL
The biggest question, though, is whether there is any way to apply the press at the pro level. Thoughts?
SIMMONS
You're preaching to the floor-burn choir. I watched the press succeed (to a decent degree) during Pitino's first season in Boston, and attended most of those home games. Of course, Coach P undermined his own cause by panic-trading rookie Chauncey Billups after 50 games to acquire Kenny Anderson, an all-offense guard who was making $10 million a season and had no interest in sprinting for 40-plus minutes, especially when he hadn't yet sweated out all the Courvoisier from the night before. Still, three things happened during that 50-game stretch to make me believe presses could work at the professional level.
1. That 1997-98 Celtics team overachieved. Pitino made so many preseason moves that they started with just three incumbents (Antoine Walker, Dee Brown and Dana Barros) and played 19 different guys in all, but they still finished 36-46 with a group of rookies and castoffs, as well as Antoine shooting 42 percent, making 292 turnovers and offending approximately 572 officials as their crunch-time guy. Before the Billups trade, they had one really nice pressing unit: two athletic rookies (Billups and Ron Mercer), young Bruce Bowen, Walter McCarty (the best cog in the history of Pitino's press, as the coach told you) and either Travis Knight or Andrew DeClercq (two agile, coachable and extremely pale big men). This group wreaked havoc a few times. I remember attending one November home game during which they dismantled the Nuggets with it. Just for kicks, I looked it up on basketball-reference.com. The Celtics won 96-86. They forced 29 turnovers. They had a whopping 16 steals. Denver's point guard (a young Bobby Jackson) committed eight turnovers. Seven Celtics finished with two-plus steals. If Pitino had just kept that nucleus -- Walker, Billups, Mercer, Barros, Brown, McCarty, Bowen, Knight and DeClercq -- been patient and allowed his young guys to take their lumps, we would have had something (and remember, Pierce was coming in the '98 draft). So frustrating. Pitino took the concept of "own worst enemy" to new heights.
2. Once Walker got his big contract (a max extension before the '98-99 season), suddenly he wanted to jog around and jack up bad 3-pointers, and since he was guaranteed $71 million, who was going to talk him out of it? This proved that a press can only work professionally if you are using guys who carry 10s and 20s in their wallets instead of 100s. Which leads me to the following tweak, something that Pitino even mentioned when you spent time with him. …
With a 12-man roster, you'd only need to train five or six guys to pull off that press. Let's say next season's Bulls trained the following five: Joakim Noah, Ty Thomas, Kirk Hinrich, Lindsey Hunter and Generic Athletic/Hungry Swingman X. They practice and practice until they become a well-oiled pressing machine. For the first five minutes of every second and fourth quarter, they unleash that killer press on their opponents … who, by the way, would be playing backups during that time, making it even more effective. Wouldn't that be an ENORMOUS advantage? Wouldn't that swing a few games? Wouldn't opponents dread playing them? Wouldn't opponents have to waste practice time preparing to break that press? Wouldn't it be even better at home with the Bulls flying around and their fans going bonkers? The key would be not putting "press miles" on your top guys and your wealthiest guys (who would never be totally invested because, again, they're really, really wealthy and don't need this crap). In this scenario, the Bulls wouldn't press with Rose, Deng, Brad Miller, Ben Gordon or even John Salmons if they could help it. Which brings me to my third point. …
3. You can easily find 10th, 11th and 12th men to make that press work. You know how many athletic swingmen are out there? Oodles. There's always another Dahntay Jones or Josh Powell killing himself in the D-League hoping for a chance. It's just a logical way to use your roster. You could build the press around one scorer (one of your top-five guys) and the ninth, 10th, 11th and 12th guys on your team. Like the 2008-09 Clippers. Couldn't they have pressed for 10 minutes a game with Al Thornton, Mike Taylor, DeAndre Jordan, Fred Jones and Mardy Collins? Why the hell not? Oh, wait, I forgot … they have a dunce as a coach.
The bigger point: NBA teams rarely, if ever, think outside the box, and that's one of at least 50 reasons why I could succeed as a GM. Over the course of an 82-game season, a killer press might swing five or six games. If I ran an NBA team, I would study tapes of those first 50 games the '97-98 Celtics played with Billups. Carefully. They were 21-24 through 45 games with the youngest team in the league during an extremely competitive season. Hmmmmmm.
GLADWELL
Let me get this straight. Pitino uses the press at Boston for 50 games and achieves a surprising result. And an entire league full of very thoughtful and knowledgeable coaches watch him do that, and in the past decade not a single one has even tried to follow Pitino's example?
SIMMONS
Yup. Although the late '90s were the peak of the NBA's Too Young Too Much Too Soon Era: too many young guys getting paid too much too soon, and handling it about as well as your average group of successful child actors getting their first fake IDs. This stretch was dominated by posses, tattoos, crotch-grabs, sneers, coach-choking and everything else; just a bunch of immature guys who carried themselves like superstars even though they hadn't done squat. Really, 1993-99 was one of the two "Wasted Eras of Young Talent," along with 1978-86 (the coke era). So the thinking was probably "I can't even get these guys to run a high screen without them glaring at me or MF-ing me … I'm gonna get them to press?" Players are much more humble and responsible and self-aware these days, so it might have a better chance.
GLADWELL
Still, is there any other industry in the world (well, outside of Detroit) so terrified of innovation? I went to see a Lakers-Warriors game earlier this season, and it was abundantly clear after five minutes that the Warriors' chances of winning were, oh, no better than 10 percent. Why wouldn't you have a special squad of trained pressers come in for five minutes a half and press Kobe and Fisher? Worst-case scenario is that you exhaust Kobe, and make him a bit more vulnerable down the stretch. Best case is that you rattle the Lakers and force a half-dozen extra turnovers that turn out to be crucial. And if you lose, so what? You were going to lose anyway. When you become GM of the Timberwolves, I'm guessing you'll put the special-press-squad concept into effect immediately.
SIMMONS
Yes. In a heartbeat. It's one of the few roster advantages you have: By using that killer press, you are turning your 10th, 11th and 12th men into assets instead of guys who are measured by their ability to execute chest-bumps and feign excitement over someone else's success. So … yeah. The killer press is on the agenda.
Thursday, May 14, 2009
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
i use to wonder this being that i have watched a pitino mentee donovan run the press successfully and abandon it at other times....
ReplyDeletewhen UF got blown out by MSU in 2000 or 2001 this team had a relentless press with underrated justin hamilton, gambling teddy dupay, alaskan assasin mike miller, freshmen athletic big man david lee, matt bonner, udonis haslem, brent wright, and brent nelson and a few others...then he stopped when these guys graduated and i was mad.
i realized he stopped because leaving a pressing unit in means sacrificing offense unless you have the talent 1-10 required...hockey analogy for you guys ....you can't have a check line in basketball (or a pressing defensive line---the goons) because baskets are scored too easily. whereas in soccer, lacrosse, hockey, water polo (i will convert you guys to goalkeeper-net sport watchers if it is the last thing i do but i need help from chase) goals are farther apart....at worst you give up one goal by subbing in a defense unit. so in basketball you need guys that can do a little of both (rodmans, mutumbos, ben wallaces, bowens, rondos---defensive specialists are too rare and mainly are a product of an extreme grind since their offensive skills lack)---everyone doesn't have that drive to go 100% of d or they are saving themselves for offense...also you need to be deep (a strong 10 man roster)....to me the only teams that could implement the press successfully are the teams pretty much still playing (there are teams you can only name 5 players on for A REASON)....the hawks are athletic but they do not have the depth (tire out josh, joe, bibby and who scores on that team).
the press works when the following scenarios align: (1) DEEP (boston can't press with no garnett or powe), athletic (and preferably underpaid but not neccessarily--i think you can get kobe, bron, d wade, and garnett to press) team members, (2) when your opponents have bad PG or inferior talent all the way around (not sure if you can press chris paul, tony parker and manu, billups---it would take a lot of practice to first deny the PG entry pass and then turn on a press). but i think most teams given practice could beat any NBA press; if you pressed the hornets tyson's alleys would double, (3) your players have to be smart (since the league is younger i would question the overall IQ of say the thunder and pressing) and discipline (again the league is younger)...press is all about knowing which pass to force or intercept so it relies on discipline and gambling simultaneously...but by the same token if the team you are playing has poor basketball IQ, this is the prime time to press.
i think i would try it in spurts especially with the 8 sec rule....with 10 sec rule i would have never tried it in the NBA
Here's what I think:
ReplyDelete- It can't happen for the starters because they simply pace themselves in the game, whereas the press requires that you go all out for short periods of time.
- Most NBA teams have the "blue squad" on the court at the beginning of the 2nd quarter and somewhere between the last 2 minutes of the 3rd and the 1st 4 minutes of the 4th. I agree with Bill here, you're talking about running a press during this 6-10 minutes with the 2nd team squad.
- It would take having a good backup point guard, 5 athletic guys on the court with 1-2 of them being shooters, and the team already running a fast tempo game trying to make it more helter skelter. You're making the game uncomfortable for the opposing backup point guard and the other guys on the court who aren't used to making good ball decisions.
This is interesting, I think it could work but like Trevor said you need the underpaid athletic guys that can still score to make this work. Trey had the great analogy with the goal sports...
ReplyDeleteFirst of all it's an 82 game season. Hard to run the press for 82 games. Another problem is that NBA teams don't really practice outside of training camp. Anyway, I think the main problem is that NBA players are lazy and don't want to work so hard on the defensive end, so you'd have to really find a few hustlers. And frankly, there are not that many in the league.
ReplyDeleteI do like the idea of having a press squad (if you can find enough fools dedicated to hustling) who unleashes the press for spurts during the game. A good point guard will destroy this, but it can work for a while against scrubs. If I were an NBA coach, I wouldn't install this until March or April, and unleash it at times during the regular season. Then I'd use it as a secret weapon come playoff time. Anyway, there is a reason why Pittono and Nolan Richardson (40 minutes of hell) aren't NBA coaches.
basically is the press in the NBA similar to the option in the NFL in that players are too skilled for it to stop them or are guys lazy?
ReplyDeletei hear 2 conflicting points...which is it and don't say both?
What Ace is trying to say is that a skilled point will make the press a waste of time.
ReplyDeleteAgainst a team without that point the press will work, but you have to go out and find the hustlers to enact it.
So he is saying that NBA guys are too lazy and even if you found the guys to run it a good point will beat it anyway.
More comments:
ReplyDelete- If teams don't practice outside of training camp and you're the only team doing a full-court press for 6-10 minutes a game, isn't this a HUGE advantage?
- How many "skilled" PG are there in the league that would scoff at the press. Each team doesn't have 1, that number is probably somewhere between 10-15 total.
- Trey, I go with 2.
- I'm convinced the option could work in the NFL, but you'd probably need 2 QBs who could run it. Vick was the closest thing, and he took some SICK hits while running.
i don't think the option could work repeatedly like say a team runs it 4 times a game...i think the average yardage would be -6....
ReplyDeleteback to teh press....the lakers tried it last night and aaron brooks shredded it....brooks is good and coming into his own but i don't think he great....i think most point guards would kill it...it would mainly work on players with poor basketball IQ consistently and how do you scope this out or judge that
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaturnovers&sort=astto&league=nba&split=0&season=2009&seasontype=2&order=true&pos=pg
i got the ast-TO ratio for PGs here...aaron brooks is at the bottom....if he can break the laker (kobe, farmar, vuj, odom, fisher, walton are perfect) press i am not sure who it will work consistently. you have to work on this in practice to perfect it taking away time from other things....pitino had the luxury of bringing walter, walker, and mercer who didn't need much work since he had work with them before....the only time nba guys press is in olympic play if they make the squad
Was there any moment in last nights game where you could say the Lakers (Kobe excluded) went all out for 1 possession? Fisher, Sasha aren't press worthy...
ReplyDeletesasha and mr. "take a charge" and "knock 6'10 guys on their ass for nothing" ain't press worthy...you will never be able to realistically get a press worthy team then (in fact i think a player like sasha only hopes to shine DEFENSIVELY is in a press situation--his man up d is horrendous; maybe he can anticipate and shoot gaps)...the press squad as i said earlier will need to have some sort of offensive skill....no one is going to build a team with an entire second unit that can't make one basket....
ReplyDeleterealistically here are a couple of 5 man units for a press (chicago may be closest)....
noah (c), thomas (pf), hinrich (pg), corey brewer (sf), donhtay jones (sg)
or
robin lopez (c), andersen (pf), chalmers (pg), miles (sg), matt harpring (sf)....
my question is when this team gets the ball, who scores a basket 9these guys all have a place in the league but if you draft them for pressing you may be fired at thend of the season)...you may have 3 starters willing to press effectively if you are lucky (you have a garnett, kobe, wade, bron, artest, rondo, manu)....my point is no one is building a team for defense....your best hope is that you draft offensive guys that give a shit about defense...i just don't think you can afford to have a basketball check line...