emeka and i were having a convo regarding dmall forwards as emeka was showing no love for iggy's game and development he was busting the magic's ass with a game winning jump shot....
rules....you have to play small forward the majority of the time (so kobe does not count nor does d-wade---yes emeka tried to convice me that wade played the 3)
stats by SF to help out a little but they obviously have a different definition of small forward too.
1. lebron
2. durant
3. melo
4. caron butler
5. paul pierce
5. richard jefferson
7. iggy
8. josh smith
8. ron artest
8. rudy gay
8. gerald wallace (underrated)
12. hedo
12. rashard lewis (the magic do not have a shooting guard)
14. josh howard
14. lamar odom
14. the matrix
14. tayshun
14. troy murphy
19. loul deng
19. salmons
21. diaw
22. beasley
23. peja
23. finley
25. magette
26. outlaw
26. AK-47 (wow he was supposed to be top ten now but sloan killed his confidence)
28. wilson chandler
29. posey (where has he been...just waiting for the playoffs)
30. yi
31. ariza
32. grant hill, battier, matt barnes, nocioni, julian wright, martell webster, jamario moon, COREY BREWER (just playing)
bottom line: emeka iggy is top 10....
Sunday, April 19, 2009
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbascoring&sort=pts&order=true&league=nba&avg=pg&qual=true&seasontype=2&pos=sf&season=2009
ReplyDeleteforgot the stat line
1. lebron
ReplyDelete2. durant
3. paul pierce
4. melo
5. caron butler
6. iggy
7. josh smith
8. rudy gay
9. richard jefferson
10. ron artest
11. gerald wallace (underrated)
12. lamar odom (yes, he's inconsistent from minute to minute, much less game to game. when it comes down to it though, i just think he's better than the rest of the guys on the list)
13. hedo
13. rashard lewis (the magic do not have a shooting guard)
15. josh howard
16. tayshun
17. the matrix
18. loul deng
19. troy murphy
20. diaw
y'all watching the game at emeka's
i forgot kleiza (he could crack my top 25 maybe), marvin williams (top 30), radmo, udoka (sorry emeka...bum), luke walton, azuiebuke, al thronton (could crack the top 25), and batum (he is good can't figure where goes).
ReplyDeletesome other toss ups to think about...the small small forwards...ace mentioned manu last night...to me he is a shooting guard...if you put manu in you have to put kobe, rudy fern, sthephen jackson, j-rich (you all the shooting guards basically except straight spot up guys like jesus and redd) in. i can see you make a case for vinsanity as a 3 but i ain't buying that one....too long and complicated
then you got the big small forwards or small powers....millsap, powe, maxiell, drew gooden and my boy tweet himself villaneuva would move to my top 15 most likely. oh yeah al ahrrington fits this mold too and is top 12 maybe...for conciseness i am sticking to real 3s....you have to play with your back to the basket 38.675% of the time, slash 58.995%, and spot/face shoot 10.0053%...the leftover is for what ever your strength is....for ramdo that would be face-up shooting; for outlaw that would be slashing; for melo that would be posting up...
ok bad math from fat finger disease....instead of 38.675 i meant 28.675
ReplyDeletefrom 82games.com (great basketball stats site). Odom, JSmoove, and Rashard Lewis have only played PF this year, do they still count in the SF conversation?
ReplyDeletewho is jsmoove...josh smith i guess...oh yeah rashard (this is a joke) made the all star team at PF and was guarding shaq...i think we know who counts and who doesn't. and duncan is a PF...i am judging your size, stature, who you defend in most cases, and your ability to fill all categories of the stat sheet as to whether you are a 3 or not...josh is a 4 because his team is small (they want to start both he and marvin as they should), odom played the 4 because bynum was hurt, the celtics have mikki moore on the depth chart now as their backup center...that's astrocious
ReplyDeleteif you look at the way he plays (reliable shooting range of 12 feet, great rebounding, defends 4's well with quickness), he's more of a 4. if you look at his physical stature, Josh Smith is clearly a 3.
ReplyDeleteThese players are not forwards
ReplyDelete5. paul pierce
23. finley
25. magette
Y'all are tripping... I'll do mine by Tiers, since I think a bunch of these fools are the same dude.
ReplyDeleteTier 1 (The Pimp)
*Lebron (he's ok)
Tier 2 (For Real)
*Durant (the future... imagine Portland with him... DAMN!!!)
*Melo (sliding down this scale... shouldn't he be better???)
*Paul Pierce (I really don't know why he's so good. He's not in shape, he's not fast, he can't jump... baffling, but he is the TRUTH)
Tier 3 (The Future)
*Iggy
*Josh Smith
Can't decide who is better. I think Josh is more talented, but could he carry the Sixers like Iggy does? Not sure.
Tier 4 (Mr. Versatility)
*Ron Artest
*Lamar Odom
I think y'all underrate both of these cats. Consider that they both play with big stars. Wouldn't Lamar be silly with the Wizards. Caron is overrated. He wasn't better than Lamar in Miami or LA.
Tier 5 (Solid Dudes... but all the same)
*Richard Jefferson
*Caron Butler
*Rudy Gay
*Gerald Wallace
*Hedo
*Rashard Lewis
*Josh Howard
*The Matrix
*Tayshaun
These guys are all above average SF's. I'd trade either one for each other. Some guys I like better than others, but they are all in the same tier. Solid players.
Tier 6 (Ordinary dudes, can play but aren't crucial)
*Troy Murphy (Can make the rise to Tier 5 with another solid year)
*Loul Deng
*Beasley (too lazy... has Tier 3 talent, but has no work ethic. Isn't Chicago glad they took Rose).
*Diaw (underrated)
*Maggette (solid, should be Tier 4/5, but not consistent)
*Outlaw (Tier 5 potential)
*Salmons (way overrated... dude just shoots a lot)
I like Caron Butler higher. like in the "For real" tier... He carried the Wizards when mr. glass Agent Zero was out
ReplyDeletethe more that i think about it, the more i agree wtih the sports guy. There are 3 positions in basketball: PG, wingman, and big men. Two and Three are definetly intertwined, and 4-5 are getting intertwined....
ReplyDeletei like troy murphy since his notre dame days but i will admit he is more top 25 than top 15...
ReplyDeletebut ace you tripping on caron butler (and richard jefferson)... artest and lamar are money but i am not co-signing that they are in tiers separate from butler and rj....i could go with the matrix being higher too; he has had a down couple of years but he may be the best rebounding 3 on this list.
if the lakers had caron butler or r-jeff (2 guys not afraid to shoot) at the three instead of lamar odom last year, they might have won the "ship".
trevor is trying to re-write basketball positions...maybe this is true but hard to conceive right now. eugenio i feel you on finley and maybe magette but paul has been playing the 3 since college...when he played with boston early on they started kenny anderson at pg, ron mercer at sg, he at sf, walker at pf, and potapenko at c....now ray plays the 2 and he is the 3....he is different though
maybe, it started when the sports guy was talking about picking all-stars and how it doesn't make sense to have 2 SG on the starting all-stars. Couldn't you say that Kobe, Lebron, PP, Durant, Melo can play either the 2 or 3 depending on what the team needs. They all can guard each other. Can't Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, Greg Oden switch between the 4 and 5 depending on matchups.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes down to it, modern basketball is played with 1 PG, 2-3 wing players, and 1-2 big men depending on roster construction. All-Star games and all-NBA teams need to be selected based off those positions as opposed to each of the inidividual positions. It only makes sense.
ace to say caron wasn't better than lamar in miami or LA is extremely short sighted....lamar was at his speak at the time thus his indoctrination on the loser dream team while caron was young...i mean kobe wasn't better than eddie jones when they were both with the lakers but we knew it was matter of time...lamar would be good with the wizards but not scoring 35 pts good...lamar avg'ed 1.6 pts more than caron when they were lakers. caron had 10+ 30 pt games this season to lamar's 0 (i won't even mentioned his single digit games)...i know this is inflated by the kobe-ful factor and the gilbert-less factor but lamar had opportunities to fill it up with bynum out but did not (he's good-top 15 now-but i just don't think he is better). i like odom (loved him with the clippers actually and rhode island...he saved my fantasy basketball season one year) but right now he is not better than caron. give me a gauge of how much better you think lamar is...is it like chris paul vs chauncey (maybe you think billups is better paul), or garnett vs al horford, i need to know...
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that RJ and Caron aren't better scorers than Lamar or Artest. I'm saying I'd rather have Artest or Odom because they do so many things well. Both handle the ball and can ease the pressure on your PG. Both are solid defensively (Artest is actually elite on D). Both crash the boards (Lamar is a solid double-double guy if Bynum wasn't around). Both run the break and can LEAD the break if needed. Also Lamar is a great passer (his interior passes to Gasol and Bynum are nasty). Basically these two are modern day Scottie Pippen's. Clearly they are ahead of the Tier 5 dudes who are mostly just scorers. The Matrix is the exception there as he had the all-around game going too, but he gets dropped in my mind because his numbers were over-inflated due to SSOL.
ReplyDeleteI am feeling Trevor on the positions thing. I like the grouping of Points, Swings, and Bigs. Definitely makes sense for all-star game purposes. I like it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_position
ReplyDeletewe could have written this but it is cool to see it laid out....i am guessing trevor's wingman position would be a hybrid of the 2-4....
This is my argument... from the wikipedia page "The small forward position is considered to be perhaps the most versatile of the main five basketball positions."
ReplyDeleteIf you look at my top dudes, all are extremely versatile (Lebron, Pierce, Iggy, Josh Smith, Lamar, Artest). The exceptions are Durant and Melo, who get the bump up because they are such elite scorers (both can drop 40+ any game and against anyone). I want my 3's to score, handle the ball, play D, guard 3 positions, rebound, shoot with range, etc. I want to be able to play my 3's at shooting guard, small forward, and power forward if needed. If you aren't that versatile, then you better be an elite scorer like Melo and Durant. If you just score like most of the other jokers, then you have less value in my mind.
Point Guard - see Wikipedia
ReplyDeleteWing - combination of 2-3, and Dirk Digler type 4's.
Big - Wikipedia's 4-5.