http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5703113
The NFL is visiting suspending defensive players only for "devestating" hits.... I believe this is way to vague. With rules like these you need to be as specific as possible if you are going to penalize the pockets of half the league and disrupt the way football has been played for years overnight. I had an issue in general with punishment based solely on "perceived" victim response. if Desean Jackson, massaquoi, heap, and cribbs and whomever jumped up after hit then this action is never taken. football is a game of inches literally and hits like these are made every quarter.... an inch to the right, up, down, or left and a guy jumps up and boast about how tough he is, but the same distance in a direction opposite can result in career ending fashion. I say with any of this stuff fix the problem not the symptom. they (the officials making money) focus on the sympton becuase that way they can still have vicious hits which people love (99% of hits), random accountability on scapegoats when the extreme negative occurs (1%), and thus circumvent long term law suits and whatever by claiming they tried to do something about this.
The game is dangerous.... you can't over police something like this without changing what it is in totality. if you want to get rid of spearing get rid of helmets, reduce contact in practice, completely overhaul the game. but don't try to have your cake and eat it too. I feel the way they are doing it is wrong and basically ask the people to police themselves but not really. This is very similar to nascar, boxing, or hockey....people go to nascar for crashes on some level; to reduce crashes do you impose a rule to cap the speeds at which drivers can drive (still putting up with some crashes).... in boxing people like knockouts; there's a reason why olympic boxing is hard to watch; one reason is head gear.... in hockey they flirt with the need of fighting in the game (but when it gets out of hand, basically one person doesn't get up, then people "press" charges---absurd). alll of these attractive but brutal aspects of the sport attracts the viewers and in some instances the very people who play.... if you change these the sport is no longer the same.... i don't see many televised flag football games....
I get it there is danger but the game is dangerous.... Another thing why is the hit accountability always on defense.... when are they going to ask the offensive guys to accept some blame and chaneg the way they play... steve young was on last night talking about these hits are high due to the incompetence of today's QBs.... i think that's ridiculous.... the main driver is the athletes are bigger and faster.... i would argue the defenses of today are more complex because the athletes are better.... james harrison is a solid B LB; there are better guys at LB.... james harrison can cover, blitz, stop run better than alot guys in the 80's. you never ask a DT to drop in coverage back then but now you can because the athletes can make that play. from a offensive standpoint what does this do to crack back blocking... is hines ward going to be able to play under these new rules?
this is getting long....
Tuesday, October 19, 2010
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they've already started recanting some, they're going to start suspending people for doing the helmet to helmet hits. I really don't think they can expand punishment anymore than that right now.
ReplyDeleteNext point though...There is no way that football being currently played now can survive an 18 game schedule. The playoffs will turn into a war of attrition. They should just eliminate that bullshit instead of watering down the product to give America more of it. I hope this isn't just a thinly velied attempt at getting more games by telling the players "you're playing a safer game now, it's going to be alright!"
Trey, you're exactly right about hits are more physical now because guys are faster and stronger. It feels like that moment in American Gangster when dude asks Denzel, "So success took a shot at you, what do you do now? What are you going to do, become unsucessful?" Are we going to have positional weight limits to reduce momentum? gtfoh...
ReplyDeleteso here's the rule they're talking about in question (shout-out to Tim Layden): Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8. A portion of that rule reads as follows:
(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/"hairline" parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures, including but not limited to:
(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player's head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; or(2) Lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily making forcible contact with the "hairline" or forehead part of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player's body....
Ok, so I realize that spearing somebody isn't a good idea and that needs to be out of the game of football. However, some of the players they're talking about was the 1st point of contact was somebody's shoulder pad hitting the other dude. That's good physical tackling, they're basing the decisions based on the outcomes rather than the physical activity and that's not right. You have no way to know what's going to happen after you do the act.
There's so many questions here:
- are they really going to throw people out during the game??? Shouldn't there be some cool-down time to look at the hit?
- who decides? Is this another GODdell moment?
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5702113
ReplyDeleteI'm with protecting players. No helmet to helmet hits!
ReplyDeleteAre all helmet to helmet hits flagged? No, but most are. I disagree with Trey that the determining factor is whether the player is hurt or not. I have no problem with suspending Dunta Robinson for that shit. He launched his body into Desean Jackson helmet first (action draws penalty) and now they both have concussions (result). We only see replays of helmet to helmet hits when someone gets hurt. He should have hit him between the chest and abdomen. He knows the only way he can deliver a big hit is to launch into someone because he's little. Compare his hit to Ray Lewis' hit on Dustin Keller. If you can aim high without hitting the helmet fine, if you cant then aim low.
Head injuries are too much of a risk. Fuck this bullshit where people talk about how they were raised to play the game. I was raised that if anybody hit me to hit them back, I had to grow out of that and they need to grow out of hitting with their helmets. If the best (NFL) can't make that adjustment then there is a problem.
Humility, Duanta Robinson never left his feet or threw himself at Jackson. Dude simply lowered his shoulder into a guy who weights a buck 50 tops...It's going to look worse for him anyway!!!
ReplyDeleteDunta Robinson’s hit was not illegal, James
ReplyDeleteHarrison’s hit was not illegal. Brandon Merewether’s hit was only illegal b/c the
NFL says now that players can’t hit helmet to helmet on receivers(defenseless)and quarterbacks(players are not supposed to tackle quaterbakcs or touch quaterbacks).
I think if the NFL goes to 18 games then I'm going to stop watching the NFL. It's not fair to the players to have to play sooooo many regular season games... The NFL is being hipocritical here... They say they're worried about players health... It that's truly the case no NFL Commissioner would think of going to an 18 game regular season...
ReplyDeleteHere's how every player from Pee wee to the pros are supposed to be taught to tackle... If an offensive player is running at you with the ball.... The player is supposed to plant their facemask into the other player they're trying to tackle chest, grab that player's legs and drive.... that's called perferct form tackling... Here's the problem, most runners lower their head... So, to get to his legs(to tackley him) you have to get lower than the offensive player if they're running direclty at you... Normally the lowest player wins... In that scenerio, you'll definitley have helmet to helmet contact.... Key point for defensive players is to keep your head up... Helmet to helmet is un avoidable.... in that scenerio....
ReplyDeleteHere are the rules that the NFL needs to implement if they want to make the game safer:
ReplyDelete- Go back to fundamental tackling....
- NO blocking below the waist under any
circumstatnces
- No defensive player can intentially throw
himself at an offensive player's knees
unless the defensive player is attempting to
wrap the offensive player up with the
defensive players arms....
- No 18 game regular season...
Here's the solution: if players stop just running into players to knock them down, and start actually wrapping their arms around players legs and body to tackle them.... 99% of what the NFL is trying to do will be solved. A lot of players don't tackle like this any more... Not sure why... It's very effective...
This issue has nothing to do with bigger, faster, stronger... It just has to do with getting back to fundametals...
Hard hits(Not intential helmet hits) are part of the game.. A hard hit is one way of getting an offensive player to drop the ball....
It's to dangerous for all players to take aggression out of the game...
All this talk about players shouldn't have to change the way they play is bullshit. They are highly paid professionals, they should be able to change.
ReplyDeleteThere have been 46 concussions through 6 weeks, there were half that all of last season.
Trevor you are right, Robinson didn't launch himself, but he did lead with his head as he put his head down and made contact with DJ's helmet. He shouldn't have put his head down, I have no problem with fining him.
Mosley you are wrong, Harrison was head hunting and that's why he got the highest fine. He hit Cribbs in the head and made no attempt to wrap him up, explain that...
I'm looking at James Harrison like a whining bitch right now. This is the baby momma beating, I'm not going to the White House cuz if we lost we wouldn't be going dumbass talking. "Maybe I'll consider not playing football." If he's too stupid to change the way he plays football then he should quit. And it's not like he's paid to tackle, he is a pass rusher who is paid to sack the QB.
"What's Humility".... Hard hit have been part of the game... some times head hit are unavoidable.... in the Harrison and Cribbs case... granted Harrions did not wrap up, but I said that palyers don't tackle like that anymore... The just run into each other... I mentioned that.... The reaons why concussions are up is becasue the NFL has made more of an effort to report concussions.... Congress was about to get involved.... Players in the past probably played the next week with a concussion... Concussions are just reported more this year... I'm pretty sure more happen in previous years, but were not reported...
ReplyDeleteIf you can tell me the difference between these two plays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3FJjqltDmA
and
hard hits with now fines or suspension
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXLOHF71L_c&feature=related
Hard hits have always been part of the game.. If the NFL is changing the rules this week so be it... But last weekend the Harrison hit was not illegal... It was just a consequence of both players being low...
Hard hits are fine, in Week 1 Ray Lewis decleated Dustin Keller without touching his helmet. If players can't hit hard without helmet contact that's on them and their shitty abilities. My argument is not against hard hits.
ReplyDeleteAnd no concussions were widely reported last year so that has nothing to do with it, that's why the comparison of concussions in 2009 vs 2010 is relevant.
Why are you trying to reference the past when helmet to helmet hits weren't illegal? You're making my point. What Harrison did was legal 10 years ago and it's illegal now. Look up the rules.
Harrison's hit was unnecessary and illegal. If a player is getting tackled and the only part of his body visible is his head and you put your head down to hit him that is illegal. Being low has nothing to do with it. Harrison intentionally speared Cribbs in the helmet! Harrison is borderline dirty, he body slammed VY on his head a few weeks ago!
Referencing how football used to be played is not a valid reason/excuse/argument.
in the flow of the game you can't be thinking about how do i not hurt a player mr. fantasy undefeated....
ReplyDeletean inch to to right player jumps up fine, an inch to the left he may be concussed... how are you going to ask a guy to make the judgement running a 4.3 40 with the job of crack back blocking or separating a man from the ball...
there's a huge mixed message.... you either make the game as safe as possible i.e. like olympic boxing or you live with the consequences.... it's like trying to make the x games safe... you can't... if you do it ain't the xgames
It's not about thinking it's about discipline. Merriweather and Harrison made the plays they did because that's their style (dirty in my opinion), if they are too lazy to change it's on them. Dunta Robinson can learn how to wrap a player up or hit him in his abdomen.
ReplyDeleteThis rule is like the speed limit, very few people obey speed limits, but they keep people driving at a "reasonable" speed.
There is some merit to the point results drive punishment, but that is life. If you are speeding you may get pulled over and get a ticket. If you are speeding and cause a wreck you will be ticketed with reckless driving. Same action, different consequences.
Mr. Undefeated, How is the defensive player expected to adjust when the offensive player ducks his head right before getting hit?
ReplyDeleteThe offensive player dropping their head doesn't mean the defender should do the same. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but not in the cases we have discussed here. Harrison for instance could have easily hit Cribbs in the shoulder (he wasn't in a pile as I thought). But Harrison chose to hit him helmet to helmet only and not even try to wrap him up, that is dirty.
ReplyDeleteI cursed one of my own lacrosse teammates out for hitting me helmet to helmet in practice. I had a bruise on the side of my face, just cuz he's ugly don't mean I have to be... The majority of people who hit with their helmets aren't trying to tackle, they are trying to inflict pain.
i agree helmet to helmet should have consequences (even when not done purposely to train folks long term to tackle differently) ... i had a problem with penalizing people for a broad generalization called devestating hits. although i think most helmet to helmet hits i see are not done totally on purpose (or with the intent to end careers).... i don't think guys are like i'm going to hit this dude helmet to helmet today or in the split second flow of the game... i do believe james harrison likes dishing out pain... i am not sure he's dirty... bill romanowskit was dirty... dirty is more like spitting in folks face and twisting ankles unnecessarily post tackling, going for guys eyes or knees... i don't think james is all the way into those extremes.... similar to hines ward... hines likes blocking and more importantly crack back blocking; doesn't mean he's dirty... some folks may think i'm a dirty basketball player because i set blind (back) picks.... dirty basketball players "undercut". there's a difference. the dirty naming is a bit premature i think... just because a guy likes being physically doesn't mean he's dirty. helmet to hemlmet hits are a matter of inches dude... so are you asking james harrison to assess the situation in 0.7 sec and say i'm going to square up vs getting lower than cribbs whose head was down...
ReplyDeletealso wrapping players up as you guys describe usually ends with the offensively player continuing forward getting an extra yd or 3 post tackle. hitting whether with the shoulder or helmet is the most affective way to stop momentum and send a guy in the other direction (especially if you can't wrap the legs and drive to the ground as described previously), which depending on the situation you cannot do. but you can always tighten into a ball and plunge... really are corners supposed to come up and drive to drive hillis, mcclain, jacobs, etc who already have momentum or should they crunch up and plunge forward and lower than the ducking opponent.... that's how you end up on the other end of a peterson highlight.... YOU CAN'T WRAP UP PETERSON IF HE SEES YOU FIRST. if you notice DEs and DTs tackle by wrapping up moreso than the secondary (not just on passing plays but in general) because based on the size and speed of the player one way works better than the other.
Harrison isn't Romonowski dirty, but who is? He's dirty because he chose to use his head only to spear another player in the helmet only. He didn't miss his should pads. That plus body slamming VY on his head... He's dirty.
ReplyDeleteHines is dirty because he is the most physical when he blindsides someone. You have never seen Hines Ward hit somebody that hard straight up. If you ain't man enough to do it face to face don't do it from the blindside.
Harrison:
ReplyDelete"There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back, maybe a few plays later or the next game. I try to hurt people."
"A hit like that geeks you up," Harrison said. "It geeks everybody up -- especially when you find out that the guy is not really hurt -- he's just sleeping. He's knocked out, but he's going to be OK."
Yeah that's the attitude players should have. He's knocked out but he's okay...
it's am MMA attitude....
ReplyDelete