this is an ongoing argument but recently rejuvenated with the playoffs....
i like rondo, and think he fits well with the celtic system. he has guys he can count on to score so alot of pressure if off him from that standpoint. however i would much rather have a guy that can score or at the very least make the other team respect my scoring ability in crunch time than a guy who can just past. rondo is the best point guard defender (and rebounder) in the league and is very good at getting into the paint which is why he is great as a distributor without being a huge scoring threat.
there are two questions? who is flat out better skill-wise and who would you rather have in the game when the score is tied with a minute left....
PG ranking based on 2009-10 play (including postseason). i also ask myself can PG A be just as successful or more in a trade as PG B. you can't ignore the fact certain guys are only relevant on their current team... d fish is a prime example. on any other team he comes off the bench but he can be successful starting for the lakers; thus the lakers do not need a PG that does much more than spot up shoot threes, talk trash, and run thru picks... rondo is in a similar position with the celtics.
the celtics wanted to trade rondo earlier this season. if they could get rondo in a trade with any of the PGs above ray felton they do it in a heartbeat except for the old guys (nash, billups, bibby, etc.)
d williams
c paul
d rose
s nash
b jennings
t parker
j nelson
r westbrook
c billups
s curry
a brooks
r rondo
m bibby
m ellis
j kidd
d harris
m williams
r felton
b davis
a miller
j calderon
r stuckey
j flynn
Tuesday, May 4, 2010
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DWill
ReplyDeleteCP58
Nash
Rose
Rondo
Billips
Parker
Evans (really question if dude is a PG, but that's his position right now)
Nelson
Westbrook
Jennings
Trey, I think that you're crossing the current version of Rondo with the older versions of the big 3. KG has lost a step, Ray can't get as much seperation from the shooters (he reminds me more of Reggie Miller at the end), and Pierce is pretty much the same guy. Combined with the fact that the other guys (Rasheed didn't replace Powe, Perkins/Big Baby/Nate Robinson/Eddie House not playing as well last year) and dude is the only guy who's playing significantly better this year. That improvement is on him...There are Celtic games you watch this year and he looks like the best guy on the floor for a team that won 50+ games.
This is ridiculous to me. Rondo is the truth. He makes that team go. A point guard's job #1 is to run the team and get guys in position to score. Job #2 is to wreak havoc on the defensive end. Down the list is scoring. Rondo does Job 1 better than anyone except Nash, DWill, and mybe CP58. And Rondo does Job #2 better than anyone period.
ReplyDeleteTrey loves those shoot first point guards that never win a damn thing. Starbury, Harris, Felton, etc. Name the past few champs and see if there is a selfish point guard in the bunch? Lakers (Fisher), Celtics (Rondo), Spurs (Parker), Miami (Wade), Pistons (Chauncey), Spurs (Avery), Bulls (Paxton), Houston (Jet), Pistons (Isiah), Lakers (Magic), Celtics (DJ). The only shoot first point guards are Wade (not really a PG) and you can argue Parker and Chauncey, who also were high assist guys. Only one was the #1 scoring option on their team (Wade). So the point is to be a successful point guard, you don't have to score, you have to do job #1 and job #2.
So give me DWill, Rose, CP58, Rondo, Nash, Westbrook, Parker, Billups, Kidd, then the rest of those bums...
Parker and Chauncey and shoot-1st PG...Isiah & Magic could do both really well but they were'nt scoring as their first option.
ReplyDeleteexactly... the thing that separated magic was that he could look for his own shot... you have to respect him... i don't love shoot first PGs but they need to be able to shoot whne called upon to make the team go IF YOUR TEAM ISN'T BUILT WITH GUYS THAT CAN SHOOT.... i.e. the kobe-shaq lakers, the kobe-gasol-bynum-artest-odom lakers (there are no shots for a PG on this team but i bet if nash wanted to play for the minimum and go to the lakers he would shatter assists records in a season and the lakers would never lose). without westbrook's scoring ability the lakers would have swept the blunder. what you are talking about is how one builds a team. if you want a winning product you are better off taking a PG that breaks down defenses and distributes to GUYS THAT CAN PUT IT IN TEH HOLE. stop saying job 2 is to play dfense for a PG. that is everyones job from 1-5 (the PG is no more responsible than the other players). for every champion with a non-offensive, pass first as you call it PG there are tons of losers how fitting the same build. how many titles does stockton have. how many titles did ewing win or push for with mark jackson... don't these two lead the nba in assists. derek harper defensive stopper and assist man with ewing (what happened). i bet ewing would have loved to play with kevin johnson in the early 90s. kidd with every team. what happened to dallas or the nets against the lakers with kidd distributing. gary payton never won with the sonics and he was a mixture of both similar to d rose.
ReplyDeletebottomline you need to have some offensive game. rondo is nice but i think all the guys i have listed above him could win with the celts. the big 3 have taken a step back with age but allen is still deadly. trev running off picks and shooting jumpers is an old man's game. allen like reggie can do this in old age. you act like reggie dropped off siginificantly. he hit clutch basket after clutch basket in the post season of his last year in the league. i do believe garnett is not the same. if what you are saying is correct and rondo is the celts best player they will not win the title, and they are lucky lebron's elbow is jacked up. see the playoffs last year when he was playing exceptionally well. how far did they go? could they have gone farther with montae ellis a guy who can d up and shoot?
also parker and billups are more shoot first PGs than great setup men... they avg like ~6 ats on a good night and over 20 pts and their team wins that way. you can't tell me if you look at a stat sheet and see billups/parker with 25 and 6 that you are worring they lost because of lack of ball movement. that's how their team is built.
if you have the most dominant center or the most dominant shooting guard then obviously you need a spot up shooter PG. how many assists does fish, paxson, bj, avery get you when they won the championship. its about how your team is setup and any GM knows when they need a scoring PG or a distributor based on the other pieces. the bottomline is you can teach some PGs with scoring ability to distribute EASIER than you can teach a pure distributor how to not be a "bum".
obviously isiah shatters this notion arguably the best PG ever definitely top 3.
after this weekend rondo is in my top five... i do have to recant my statement. they could win if rondo is their best player....
ReplyDeleteafter 29 pts, 18 rebs, 13 asts in the playoffs that is big. he accounted for >60% of their scoring. it will be interesting to see if lebron can slow him...